Throughout the nine seasons of The memek melayu lucahOffice, Pam Beesly and Jim Halpert's relationship was fairly conflict-free.

The two had some minor disagreements in early seasons. Things got awkward when Jim started dating Karen Filippelli. There was also that whole boom operator wrench thrown in towards the end of the series, but at its core, Jim and Pam's friendship always remained strong.

In Season 2, Episode 15, however, Jim and Pam had their first realfight. It was a defining moment in their friendship, so Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey decided to unpack it on the latest episode of their Office Ladiespodcast.

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For those who need a refresher, the fight took place in the "Boys and Girls" episode. Jan Levinson comes to Scranton to lead a "Women in the Workplace" seminar, and after Michael feels threatened he decides to hold a seminar for men in the warehouse.

Women in the workplace seminar. Credit: the office / nbc / netflix

Pam and Jim are separated for the majority of the episode, but when Jim returns to the office to make a phone call Pam excuses herself from her meeting to talk to him.

Pam had just finished telling the room of women that she'd always dreamed of having a house with a terrace and pursuing a career in art or graphic design. Jan responded by giving her a pamphlet on a graphic design internship that the corporate office is offering, and suggests that she consider taking part.

"She very excitedly tells Jim about this internship opportunity," Fischer explains. "Jim adorably encourages her immediately. He's like, 'Well what are the details? I think you should do it.'"

Jim being supportive! Imagine. Credit: the office / nbc / netflix Pam excited about her internship! Imagine. Credit: the office / nbc / netflix

"And she just lights up," Kinsey said. "She needed someone to give her permission in a way to go for this and Jim immediately did, cause he's her soulmate."

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It seems like Pam's going to pursue the internship opportunity, but when she tells Roy about it things change. "It's very clear that he is notsupportive," Fischer said.

Roy being rude as usual. Credit: the office / nbc / netflix

The camera then cuts to a talking head where Pam again says Scranton probably doesn't even have houses like the one she's always dreamed of. "This metaphor broke my heart," Kinsey said.

"Pam then is in the kitchen with Jim, and Jim is like, 'Wait. You’re not gonna take the internship?' and she's like, 'Well like Roy said, there's no guarantee it's gonna lead to anything anyways,'" Fischer explains. When Jim highlights Roy's lack of encouragement, Pam gets angry. "I was like, OH DANG. Here we go! She's hurt," Kinsey said. "And it's not Jim's fault, he's speaking truth."

"This episode is Jim and Pam’s first fight," Fischer said. "It’s a real fight."

"WTF" - Jim if he could swear on this NBC show. Credit: The office / nbc / netflix

"We go back to the talking head and Pam just breaks down," she explained. "She's talking about the terrace, but we know what she's really talking about. She says 'it's not practical' and 'you're not going to find that,' and what she's really saying is, 'I'm never gonna have Jim. I'm never gonna have true love. I'm never gonna be who I want to be.'"

"And also that my dreams aren't valid. I don't even get to try for my dream. That's not my path," Kinsey said.

When Roy crushed Pam's dreams earlier in the episode, Fischer cried such genuine-looking tears that fans wrote into the podcast to ask what she was thinking about in that moment. "Guys, there are times as an actor where your heart just breaks for your character. I just felt her heart breaking and it made my cry," she explained.

Via Giphy

"It's in the same way where you watch something that makes you cry. I wasn't thinking about my dead pet or something like that. I was thinking about how it must feel to have someone not encourage you, to feel trapped, and to feel so alone. And I thought about how the one person who was trying to help me I just pushed away," Fischer continued.

"I think our show had a lot of really relatable moments like that," Kinsey said. "I know we do these crazy things — like it's gonna cut to the warehouse and Dwight is making this snow angel out of packing peanuts — but I feel like the heart of our show is just these people living their lives, and their relationships, and I love that we have that balance."

You can stream episodes of The Officeon Netflix and follow along with the podcast every week on Earwolf, Apple Podcasts, or Stitcher.

Topics The Office